Researched by Thomas DeMichelePublished - January 14, 2016 Last Updated - February 25, 2020
Are the Ice Caps Melting?
Data shows that the polar ice caps are melting due to both natural and human factors. Data comes from NASA satellites and is accepted by skeptics and climate change advocates alike.[1][2]
This isn’t to say that every blip of data on sea ice and land ice spells catastrophe, but it does indicate that when we aggregate the data we see trends of polar ice caps melting at accelerated rates (on average over time, especially since the 1970s; not each year).[3][4]
This melting is at least in part due to an increase in the earth’s average temperature AKA “global warming,” which is thought to be impacted by human Carbon Dioxide production (and the release of other greenhouses gasses into the atmosphere from both human activity and natural occurrences).
Largest Areas of Agreement and Disagreement About Polar Ice Caps and Global Warming
All sides of this debate focus on the impact of climate change.
Many people believe that the ice caps are melting and that melting ice caps have negative effects. Most also agree that humans are contributing to the problem via global warming (the greenhouse effect that makes the earth’s average temperature rise).
The fact that we are coming to the end of a geological ice age should also be taken into account.
Ultimately, all sides of the argument are based on data NASA satellite data collected since 1979 (and ice chunks studied since the 50’s), which show a long-term decline of global sea ice and land ice. Polar ice naturally recedes and grows in cycles, but data suggests this is not a purely natural decline and instead is correlating with other “climate change” data to paint a troubling picture.
BOTTOMLINE: The ice caps appear to be melting at what seems to be a greater rate than would be expected. Everything from how we measured temperatures in the past, to the natural ebbs and flows, to other factors are taken into account. To what extent this is natural versus manmade and to what extent it is a problem, is where the contention lies.
NASA | Climate Change: A Warming World.
TIP: “Skeptics” tend not to trust NASA because NASA is the government. The problem is that we rely on NASA’s collective funding to study climate issues, so rejecting their information based on bias makes the discussion very tricky. Unless you are going to travel to the poles and start studying ice yourself, it’s probably bad practice to dismiss all of NASA’s raw data. See an explainer of bias as a concept if you are curious as to how this skews the argument.
TIP: Part of what releases greenhouse gasses (like methane) into the atmosphere is permafrost melting. That means the melting of the icecaps can, in theory, create a cycle that accelerates global warming. With that in mind, the earths ecosystem can’t be considered in isolation, there are many complex factors to consider (like to what well our atmosphere can absorb greenhouse gasses without warming).[9][10][11][12]
Ice Cap Melt: Fact Vs. Theory
When lots of facts and data point to something being true, we call it a theory. When we know something for certain, we call it a fact. The more facts and data that point to a theory, the stronger that theory becomes.
In this respect, it is a fact that the data points to the ice cap melting, and
it is a well substantiated theory that the ice caps are melting.
To prove for certain that the icecaps are melting requires us to have lots of empirical evidence over time. Right now we simply have data pointing to ice cap melt.
The more data that comes out, the more certain we can be of what is happening.
Satellite data shows that since the late 1970s, Arctic sea ice extent has decreased by about 12% per decade.
That is the sort of data used to draw the conclusion that the ice caps are melting (similar data is used to conclude that this is due, at least in part, to human impacted climate change).
With science we always want to look for data that will prove us wrong, not just data that proves us right. At the same time, we want to take the data we do have seriously.
“Arctic sea ice extent for May 2017 averaged 12.74 million square kilometers (4.92 million square miles), the fourth lowest in the 1979 to 2017 satellite record. This contrasts strongly with the past several months, when extent tracked at satellite-era record lows.” – From the June 2017 nsidc.org article Sluggish ice retreat, except in the Chukchi Sea.
Looking at the Data From NASA
Below are a few charts showing data from NASA’s satellites, which measure the ebbs and flows of polar ice growth and recession. The data shows a long-term decline of global sea ice of about 5.5% (note this is GLOBAL sea ice, not land ice). What is more telling than global sea ice is the average monthly arctic sea ice data (as Antarctic sea ice acts differently than Arctic). What is most troubling is the implication of the data: that polar land ice is melting.
Updated NASA satellite data that skeptics use to show ice caps aren’t melting. This ignores the fact that the sea ice problem is partially hidden by Arctic sea ice remaining consistent. Source.
What Does it Mean That the Ice Caps are Melting?
Every year it gets hot, the ice melts, that warms the water, then it gets cold, ice freezes, and that cools the water. When the ice melts more rapidly then it freezes it causes a chain reaction that results in melting ice caps over time. If the ice caps melt too much, it will cover most of the earth in water. That is bad.
There are a number of other climate changes caused by melting polar ice, this compounds the problem of studying the effects in isolation, and can result in the caps gaining elevation as snow and rain fall on top of the caps. No side single side effect or natural ebb or flow explains away the rest of the data or hints that the ice caps aren’t actually melting.
FACT: According to 2000 facts sheet from NASA, together, Greenland and Antarctica contain about 75% of the world’s fresh water (also quoted as 68.7% by water.usgs.gov). That is only a little under 2% of the world’s total water, but it is enough to raise sea level by over 75 meters, if all the ice were returned to the oceans. Imagine that water was in the ocean instead of sitting on top of it as ice at the poles.[13]
What If All The Ice Melted On Earth? ft. Bill Nye. Bill Nye explains what would happen IF the polar ice melted. Bill Nye does popular science, so you’ll want to check his insights against NASA data and other official sources cited on this page.
Why are the Ice Caps Melting?
The ice caps are melting because the earth’s average temperature is rising (global warming). This means the cold needed to keep the ice frozen isn’t sustained for long enough to do its job. This can and does happen naturally, but according to sources like NASA, the current average temperature increase can’t be explained by natural cycles alone.
Sea Ice, Land Ice, and What is Happening in the Poles
There are two types of polar ice: sea ice and land ice.
Antarctic sea ice extent is increasing
Antarctic land ice mass is decreasing
Arctic sea ice extent is pretty much staying consistent
Arctic land ice mass is decreasing
The Arctic and Antarctic are both reacting differently, but both are actually signaling that there is a problem.[9]
In the Arctic, the land ice is melting and the sea ice is spreading out in cold weather and retreating in warm setting record maximums and minimums.
In the Antarctic, land ice is melting, but sea ice is remaining consistent. The Antarctic has a different climate and is harder to study, so we are more certain about the Arctic.
The NASA data above is on sea ice, but land ice is much more troublesome. Ice already in the sea (not on top of it per-say), isn’t going to raise water levels like land ice. Both ice types pose issues, and the issues are complex. But, this is important to note, as both sides will purposely use the differences to make their points sound valid. For instance, in 2015 sea ice didn’t rescind as much as 2014, so skeptics used it as proof there was no problem while the other side underplayed it.
NASA reported in 2015 that “sea ice in the Arctic has been declining at a rate of 9% per decade for the past 30 years,[5] whereas Antarctica has been losing land ice at a rate of more than 100 km3 per year since 2002.”[8]
According to NASA in February 2015, “As a whole, the planet has been shedding sea ice at an average annual rate of 13,500 square miles (35,000 square kilometers) since 1979, the equivalent of losing an area of sea ice larger than the state of Maryland every year.” Even though Antarctic sea ice reached a new record maximum this past September, global sea ice is still decreasing. That’s because the decreases in Arctic sea ice far exceed the increases in Antarctic sea ice.[7]NOTE: rates slowed over 2015, so the number is a little less drastic with the full 2015 factored in.
“Even though Antarctic sea ice reached a new record maximum this past September, global sea ice is still decreasing,” said Claire Parkinson, author of the study and climate scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. “That’s because the decreases in Arctic sea ice far exceed the increases in Antarctic sea ice.”
I went into this kind of hoping I would discover that the data was overstated or wrong. That is not my takeaway, although I reserve room to be proved wrong (after-all data showing that the ice-caps are melting isn’t the same as proving everything related to the climate change and ice cap melt debate).
My takeaway is that climate skeptics essentially know global warming is a problem to some extent, but many don’t think it’s “that bad”, and are using confusion to hinder what could very well be oppressive regulation. On the same note, it’s likely that those who want more regulation have their own agenda. Also, we can’t rule out bias and how people are reacting to data without conscious motive at all.
Motives and bias aside, the ice caps seem to be melting (for real, for real). This, natural or not, should be taken seriously in a way that doesn’t cause catastrophe down the road. Catastrophe could look like Water World, or it could look like Atlas Shrugged as we over-react and scramble for a solution later than ideal. By acting now we have greater control over what change looks like, that is in our interest regardless of party lines.
To be fair, and so anyone researching this has both sides of the argument. Here is the rock star of Youtube skepticism Stefan Molyneux. As one commenter put it “….this is lunacy. You would have made a great Tobacco lobby ‘expert’, the for hire merchants of doubt. After all, “four out of five doctors recommend Camels”…
The fringe aside, both climate change skeptics and advocates agree that the ice caps are melting. The only disagreement is over to what extent it’s natural or a problem.
Thomas DeMichele is the content creator behind ObamaCareFacts.com, FactMyth.com, CryptocurrencyFacts.com, and other DogMediaSolutions.com and Massive Dog properties. He also contributes to MakerDAO and other cryptocurrency-based projects. Tom's focus in all...
Thanks for the correction. I wish perfect spelling and ability to research came in a packet together where if you were good at one than necessary the other. I also wish copy editors worked for free. But in this sad world we have wage labor, melting ice caps, and every skill requires its own mastery. 😔
I am a skeptic of global warming. I have seen conflicting data on global warming. I haven’t seen any that shows the Earth is any warmer over a span of ten years than it was 100 years ago. Is that why they call climate change and not global warming? Also I noted that many places in the US set record cold marks this last year.
I would also point out that burden of proof is on the supporters, not the unconvinced. It is wrong to say that I as a skeptic should bring you proof that your belief in a theory is wrong. I’m not the one responsible, the believers are.
Also it would be good to know what the level of carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere 30 years ago when this “alarming rate” began. And what was the rate 35 years ago?
I can’t call it a myth that the ice caps are melting, but I am unconvinced that it is either permanent or due to carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. It could be many variables such as the amount of sea life (micro) increased or physical pollution in the water, or the Sun, etc… That’s where I am at…
I did a tiny bit of research, and came across these 2 sites , accuracy seems , well, subjective after skimming over the The European Geo-sciences Union paper which is now 6 years old. But there is reference to 45% of Antarctica ice sitting under sea level.
So in theory if all of Antarctica ice melted , the above sea (surface) level ice would lose 9.1% of volume (from loss of density from melting), and the under sea level ice ( being 45% of the surface ice) would also lose an additional 9.1% of volume. But being 45% of the surface ice reduces the % to 4.1% of the total.
So reductions of 9.1%+4.1%= 13.2%
So the contributing amount of water that would be added to sea levels if Antarctica (alone) completely melted would be reduced by 13.2% of the total frozen mass.
Again , all relying on relatively subjective and unfinished data.
The effect from the North pole would be different as there is no land under it , so its floating & i haven’t been able to find any solid-ish statistic on that yet. BUT floating icebergs are MORE than 90% below sea level so using that as an estimate, the North Pole would be quite minimal to contributing to the seas rising if it all melted, i estimate around 1.71% contribution (on a very late night, & yes i better get some sleep, type of calculation, ha)
Greenland…. well, ill leave that for another day of research hey.
Hope this makes some sense, its getting late here in Australia.
The ice caps are melting. Nowhere near as dramatically as Al Gore told us they would. Slowly but surely they’ll melt away. Maybe by 2100 they’ll be mostly gone. Will it be catastrophic? Nobody really knows for sure. If the entire worlds land masses are covered in water, that’d certainly be a problem. We would really have to brush up on our hydroponics. I’ve expressed my fair share of skepticsm on the topic, especially as it comes to NOAA and the IPCC being caught fudging temperature data. Let’s get this back to the way it should be, a HUMAN issue, not a partisan issue. I’m a young new age conservative and I want to save the bees, trees, dolphins, whales, etc just as much as you do. There is still room to work together. We must do so for the continued survival of our species.
In general I do tend to agree. I think sometimes on both sides the passion behind positions gets in the way of persuasive arguments, and sometimes economics and politics get in the way of fact-based discussion on both sides, but ultimately the data seems to point to serious issues.
Politics and economics aside, the issues at the end of the day tend to be taken seriously by the left on average and tend to be dismissed by the right. And that ultimately I think leads to one side being in the wrong here.
While both sides have valid arguments, I would argue that the right tends to err on the side of being dreadful wrong here and takes a dangerous position, because they have at times taken the position so far as denying science and spreading falsehoods in order to ensure against overly oppressive regulation on business… which is not helpful all things considered. The result of the political end of the debate is that it leaves us having to argue over whether we can trust a scientist or not, instead of trying to solve the problem. That isn’t helpful, and that is where the right in my opinion drops the ball on this specific issue.
Hello. Thomas.
Good job in addressing a sensitive topic that really shouldn’t be sensitive.
I was reading though the information, i am a person who dare not side until i have all the facts, and even then…, saying that, it is obviously a difficult situation to acquire all the facts in the first place.
I have a couple of questions/ info to put out there, that maybe/should be factored in.
As a keen armature astronomer, i have take an interest in the solar sun cycles , and in the influence on our tiny planet, (https://www.weather.gov/fsd/sunspots) & (https://scied.ucar.edu/sunspot-cycle) has some interesting data/ info, there are many other sites . The sun seems to run in small 11 year high & low activity cycles, and then within a larger 75-80 year cycle, and yet bigger again cycles. It really does play a very important role in our climate, i would consider it the number one influence without a doubt. I think it should be factored into any climate model.
To quote from the 1st web site (i hope they don’t mind)….. “One interesting aspect of solar cycles is that the sun went through a period of near zero sunspot activity from about 1645 to 1715. This period of sunspot minima is called the Maunder Minimum. The “Little Ice Age” occurred over parts of Earth during the Maunder Minimum. So how much does the solar output affect Earth’s climate?”
Another point i want to put out there that doesn’t seem to get addressed, is that when water is frozen it EXPANDS about 9.1%, so when the ice melts on land or is above the sea level, the water produced from melting is decreased by that 9.1%, BUT, what about all the ice under the ocean already,? We should also see a decrease of about 9.1% of that volume as well.
So i guess the question is , how much ice is actually below the existing sea level?? is there actual real data on that?
I don’t know the answer to your question for sure, but think it is a great question. I am guessing that ice under the sea is equivalent to water in the sea in terms of sea level rise (so it melting would have no effect), but I’ll try to find a certain answer. If you find the answer, feel free to share it. 🙂
Anton BakkerDoesn't beleive this myth.
lets first agree that the scientific part of this discussion is not very strong. If it was pure scientific there would be more agreement and more data. For example we would have more agreement if we had accurate data over the past 300 years and not over the past 30 years. The other issue is that non-scientific people like movie stars have strong opinions about it which skews the ‘consensus’. Thirdly, most data is from one source, namely NASA.
As a result this is not sound science. As a comparison, 80% of American people believe in God but we still teach our children that there is no scientific proof for Gods existence.
Ergo, why would we base a political agenda on flimsy scientific facts? Let’s wait a few more decades and see what happens. Let’s have some car companies spend money on research and have a look at their findings. Until then, please don’t pose the global warming theory as a scientific fact
So I generally agree with you that we could use more data and that we should be seeking more consensus. I also would state that we shouldn’t treat inductive arguments based on correlating data as certain fact (it is instead logical conclusions based on probability, based on data we have from studies, which are mostly done by NASA).
That said, one problem here is the opposition (the anti-climate change camp) also has very little data and is often ideologically opposed to the data that does come out.
That camp tends to use the fear that globalists want to use the idea of climate change for economic and political gain as a grounds for saying “human caused climate change isn’t real”… speaking of correlation not always implying causation 😀
The problem with that is the data we do have constantly hints that it is highly likely climate change is real and the real argument is “to what extent is it human caused” and “to what extent can we have a positive impact” and (for our purposes) “to what extent is it melting the ice caps” (and is it the only thing melting them… and are they even melting on average over time; not just more frequently since the 1970’s).
If climate change is real, if the globe is warming on average (not daily or every season even), then over time we will also have the problem of icecap melt (as the data currently indicates we have). This correlation isn’t certainty, but we have to at leas take the data we do have seriously.
As for the polar ice caps melting, like with climate change and global warming in general, I am going off the best data I can.
That data often comes from NASA, but we also have data from other countries and non-NASA sources. Those are the best people we have, those are the ones who have the money to do the funding and the manpower and technology. What other chioce do we have but to accept their data as valid while remaining skeptical and demanding further study?
I am not going to side with big polluters over scientists on this one, even if they are both ideologically driven, at least the scientists are doing the research end instead of making economic arguments.
I don’t know what to say here aside from… “I trust NASA data to the extent that it is wise to trust it” and that (plus other data like that of the European Space Agency ESA) is what I’m basing the conclusion that “data shows the icecaps are melting” on.
So to be very clear, what I’m saying is “Data shows that the polar ice caps are melting due to both natural and human factors. Data comes from NASA satellites and is accepted by skeptics and climate change advocates alike.” I’m not saying the data has to be 100% perfect or that we should be skeptical or should push for more research or that we should over-react.
Thanks for your insight, I tried to make it more clear that theory is not fact. Confusing theory and fact aren’t helpful, but I do think you are being a little dismissive of NASA and their studies. Still, all insight and opinions are welcome. The reader can always consider the counterarguments in the comments!
Would that be fresh water ice? Since I have seen other stats claiming 99% but no doubt the caps are receding/melting. But it still remains the question what percent did humans contribute to global warming or has this been a cycle of freezing and thawing for a millennia.
So for sure, there are still real questions to ask even after we confirm CO2 levels and that the ice caps are melting at accelerated rates (see the studies in the citations).
One big question is “based off what we know now, how do we act to prevent disaster while not stifling the economy, and how can we learn more?”
As for the fresh water vs. sea water (salt water). Part of the icecaps come from snow and rivers (and thus are “fresher” water) and part are from the sea (salt water). Each type of ice has different implications, and certainly that is part of the discussion. Learn more:
That said, the word “fresh” was omitted. That would be 75% of the world’s “fresh water” not just water. Obviously that makes more sense. Exact quote as it stands now:
According to 2000 facts sheet from NASA, together, Greenland and Antarctica contain about 75% of the world’s fresh water (also quoted as 68.7% by water.usgs.gov). That is only a little under 2% of the world’s total water, but it is enough to raise sea level by over 75 meters, if all the ice were returned to the oceans. Imagine that water was in the ocean instead of sitting on top of it as ice at the poles.
In other words, thank you for the insight, the argument is much stronger now. That is what this site is all about, digging toward truth.
The icecaps are still melting, that would be the bottom line here.
Interesting article, I agree with your conclusion. There is a lot of conflicting information and varying agenda’s present at the moment.
I’m curious as to where you got your fact “Together Greenland and Antartica contain about 75% of the world’s water.” According to the https://water.usgs.gov/edu/ only 1.7% of all of earths water are held as ice in the caps. Yes, even if all this melted it would be catastrophic. However for all of it or even a significant portion of it to melt is another days discussion…
jaxon Did not vote.
do you notice all of the references are from 2016 or earlier?????
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
Because the page was written in January 14, 2016 😉
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
It still seems to be the case though. Would be great to hear they stopped melting, that said.
Here is a more recent article https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/11/polar-ice-caps-melting-six-times-faster-than-in-1990s
Dave Doesn't beleive this myth.
Arrogate? The word is aggregate… tough to take anything seriously after this….
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
Thanks for the correction. I wish perfect spelling and ability to research came in a packet together where if you were good at one than necessary the other. I also wish copy editors worked for free. But in this sad world we have wage labor, melting ice caps, and every skill requires its own mastery. 😔
artair Did not vote.
I am a skeptic of global warming. I have seen conflicting data on global warming. I haven’t seen any that shows the Earth is any warmer over a span of ten years than it was 100 years ago. Is that why they call climate change and not global warming? Also I noted that many places in the US set record cold marks this last year.
I would also point out that burden of proof is on the supporters, not the unconvinced. It is wrong to say that I as a skeptic should bring you proof that your belief in a theory is wrong. I’m not the one responsible, the believers are.
Also it would be good to know what the level of carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere 30 years ago when this “alarming rate” began. And what was the rate 35 years ago?
I can’t call it a myth that the ice caps are melting, but I am unconvinced that it is either permanent or due to carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. It could be many variables such as the amount of sea life (micro) increased or physical pollution in the water, or the Sun, etc… That’s where I am at…
Steve Did not vote.
Sorry , forgot to add the 2 websites, they are …..
http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/question/much-antarctic-ice-sheet-sea-level/ &
https://www.the-cryosphere.net/7/375/2013/
As i said its late here.
Thank you
Steve Did not vote.
Thanks for a very quick response Thomas.
Much appreciated.
I did a tiny bit of research, and came across these 2 sites , accuracy seems , well, subjective after skimming over the The European Geo-sciences Union paper which is now 6 years old. But there is reference to 45% of Antarctica ice sitting under sea level.
So in theory if all of Antarctica ice melted , the above sea (surface) level ice would lose 9.1% of volume (from loss of density from melting), and the under sea level ice ( being 45% of the surface ice) would also lose an additional 9.1% of volume. But being 45% of the surface ice reduces the % to 4.1% of the total.
So reductions of 9.1%+4.1%= 13.2%
So the contributing amount of water that would be added to sea levels if Antarctica (alone) completely melted would be reduced by 13.2% of the total frozen mass.
Again , all relying on relatively subjective and unfinished data.
The effect from the North pole would be different as there is no land under it , so its floating & i haven’t been able to find any solid-ish statistic on that yet. BUT floating icebergs are MORE than 90% below sea level so using that as an estimate, the North Pole would be quite minimal to contributing to the seas rising if it all melted, i estimate around 1.71% contribution (on a very late night, & yes i better get some sleep, type of calculation, ha)
Greenland…. well, ill leave that for another day of research hey.
Hope this makes some sense, its getting late here in Australia.
Well thanks again for reading.
A Deplorable Man Supports this as a Fact.
The ice caps are melting. Nowhere near as dramatically as Al Gore told us they would. Slowly but surely they’ll melt away. Maybe by 2100 they’ll be mostly gone. Will it be catastrophic? Nobody really knows for sure. If the entire worlds land masses are covered in water, that’d certainly be a problem. We would really have to brush up on our hydroponics. I’ve expressed my fair share of skepticsm on the topic, especially as it comes to NOAA and the IPCC being caught fudging temperature data. Let’s get this back to the way it should be, a HUMAN issue, not a partisan issue. I’m a young new age conservative and I want to save the bees, trees, dolphins, whales, etc just as much as you do. There is still room to work together. We must do so for the continued survival of our species.
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
Well said.
Dale Schroader Supports this as a Fact.
” NOAA and the IPCC being caught fudging temperature data”
Accusations do not equal reality.
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/no-data-manipulation-at-noaa/
So unfortunately, it IS a partisan issue. Science on one side and obfuscation on the other.
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
In general I do tend to agree. I think sometimes on both sides the passion behind positions gets in the way of persuasive arguments, and sometimes economics and politics get in the way of fact-based discussion on both sides, but ultimately the data seems to point to serious issues.
Politics and economics aside, the issues at the end of the day tend to be taken seriously by the left on average and tend to be dismissed by the right. And that ultimately I think leads to one side being in the wrong here.
While both sides have valid arguments, I would argue that the right tends to err on the side of being dreadful wrong here and takes a dangerous position, because they have at times taken the position so far as denying science and spreading falsehoods in order to ensure against overly oppressive regulation on business… which is not helpful all things considered. The result of the political end of the debate is that it leaves us having to argue over whether we can trust a scientist or not, instead of trying to solve the problem. That isn’t helpful, and that is where the right in my opinion drops the ball on this specific issue.
Steve Did not vote.
Hello. Thomas.
Good job in addressing a sensitive topic that really shouldn’t be sensitive.
I was reading though the information, i am a person who dare not side until i have all the facts, and even then…, saying that, it is obviously a difficult situation to acquire all the facts in the first place.
I have a couple of questions/ info to put out there, that maybe/should be factored in.
As a keen armature astronomer, i have take an interest in the solar sun cycles , and in the influence on our tiny planet, (https://www.weather.gov/fsd/sunspots) & (https://scied.ucar.edu/sunspot-cycle) has some interesting data/ info, there are many other sites . The sun seems to run in small 11 year high & low activity cycles, and then within a larger 75-80 year cycle, and yet bigger again cycles. It really does play a very important role in our climate, i would consider it the number one influence without a doubt. I think it should be factored into any climate model.
To quote from the 1st web site (i hope they don’t mind)….. “One interesting aspect of solar cycles is that the sun went through a period of near zero sunspot activity from about 1645 to 1715. This period of sunspot minima is called the Maunder Minimum. The “Little Ice Age” occurred over parts of Earth during the Maunder Minimum. So how much does the solar output affect Earth’s climate?”
Another point i want to put out there that doesn’t seem to get addressed, is that when water is frozen it EXPANDS about 9.1%, so when the ice melts on land or is above the sea level, the water produced from melting is decreased by that 9.1%, BUT, what about all the ice under the ocean already,? We should also see a decrease of about 9.1% of that volume as well.
So i guess the question is , how much ice is actually below the existing sea level?? is there actual real data on that?
I am interested in your or anyone views on this.
Thanks for reading & keep up the good work.
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
I don’t know the answer to your question for sure, but think it is a great question. I am guessing that ice under the sea is equivalent to water in the sea in terms of sea level rise (so it melting would have no effect), but I’ll try to find a certain answer. If you find the answer, feel free to share it. 🙂
Anton Bakker Doesn't beleive this myth.
lets first agree that the scientific part of this discussion is not very strong. If it was pure scientific there would be more agreement and more data. For example we would have more agreement if we had accurate data over the past 300 years and not over the past 30 years. The other issue is that non-scientific people like movie stars have strong opinions about it which skews the ‘consensus’. Thirdly, most data is from one source, namely NASA.
As a result this is not sound science. As a comparison, 80% of American people believe in God but we still teach our children that there is no scientific proof for Gods existence.
Ergo, why would we base a political agenda on flimsy scientific facts? Let’s wait a few more decades and see what happens. Let’s have some car companies spend money on research and have a look at their findings. Until then, please don’t pose the global warming theory as a scientific fact
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
So I generally agree with you that we could use more data and that we should be seeking more consensus. I also would state that we shouldn’t treat inductive arguments based on correlating data as certain fact (it is instead logical conclusions based on probability, based on data we have from studies, which are mostly done by NASA).
That said, one problem here is the opposition (the anti-climate change camp) also has very little data and is often ideologically opposed to the data that does come out.
Most of the arguments I hear from that camp is twisted logic based on misleading presentations of studies (for a broad and loose example see this fact-check of Breitbart https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/breitbart-misrepresents-research-58-scientific-papers-falsely-claim-disprove-human-caused-global-warming-james-delingpole/).
That camp tends to use the fear that globalists want to use the idea of climate change for economic and political gain as a grounds for saying “human caused climate change isn’t real”… speaking of correlation not always implying causation 😀
The problem with that is the data we do have constantly hints that it is highly likely climate change is real and the real argument is “to what extent is it human caused” and “to what extent can we have a positive impact” and (for our purposes) “to what extent is it melting the ice caps” (and is it the only thing melting them… and are they even melting on average over time; not just more frequently since the 1970’s).
If climate change is real, if the globe is warming on average (not daily or every season even), then over time we will also have the problem of icecap melt (as the data currently indicates we have). This correlation isn’t certainty, but we have to at leas take the data we do have seriously.
As for the polar ice caps melting, like with climate change and global warming in general, I am going off the best data I can.
That data often comes from NASA, but we also have data from other countries and non-NASA sources. Those are the best people we have, those are the ones who have the money to do the funding and the manpower and technology. What other chioce do we have but to accept their data as valid while remaining skeptical and demanding further study?
I am not going to side with big polluters over scientists on this one, even if they are both ideologically driven, at least the scientists are doing the research end instead of making economic arguments.
I don’t know what to say here aside from… “I trust NASA data to the extent that it is wise to trust it” and that (plus other data like that of the European Space Agency ESA) is what I’m basing the conclusion that “data shows the icecaps are melting” on.
So to be very clear, what I’m saying is “Data shows that the polar ice caps are melting due to both natural and human factors. Data comes from NASA satellites and is accepted by skeptics and climate change advocates alike.” I’m not saying the data has to be 100% perfect or that we should be skeptical or should push for more research or that we should over-react.
Thanks for your insight, I tried to make it more clear that theory is not fact. Confusing theory and fact aren’t helpful, but I do think you are being a little dismissive of NASA and their studies. Still, all insight and opinions are welcome. The reader can always consider the counterarguments in the comments!
https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/icesheets.html
https://www.bas.ac.uk/
http://icecores.org/
http://e360.yale.edu/features/abrupt_sea_level_rise_realistic_greenland_antarctica
http://www.dw.com/en/polar-ice-sheets-melting-faster-than-ever/a-16432199
Chris Did not vote.
Would that be fresh water ice? Since I have seen other stats claiming 99% but no doubt the caps are receding/melting. But it still remains the question what percent did humans contribute to global warming or has this been a cycle of freezing and thawing for a millennia.
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
So for sure, there are still real questions to ask even after we confirm CO2 levels and that the ice caps are melting at accelerated rates (see the studies in the citations).
One big question is “based off what we know now, how do we act to prevent disaster while not stifling the economy, and how can we learn more?”
As for the fresh water vs. sea water (salt water). Part of the icecaps come from snow and rivers (and thus are “fresher” water) and part are from the sea (salt water). Each type of ice has different implications, and certainly that is part of the discussion. Learn more:
https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/index.html
https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/characteristics/difference.html
SanDee Did not vote.
Have you done research on the keeling curve study. It shows correlation between carbon dioxide increase and global temperatures
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
No; but good tip. I’ll do some research and see what I can add to the article.
jimmyjames Did not vote.
75%???!!! You just destroyed all your credibility, bud.
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
No, I quoted NASA actually: http://www.cotf.edu/essc/coutline/nasafact2.html
That said, the word “fresh” was omitted. That would be 75% of the world’s “fresh water” not just water. Obviously that makes more sense. Exact quote as it stands now:
According to 2000 facts sheet from NASA, together, Greenland and Antarctica contain about 75% of the world’s fresh water (also quoted as 68.7% by water.usgs.gov). That is only a little under 2% of the world’s total water, but it is enough to raise sea level by over 75 meters, if all the ice were returned to the oceans. Imagine that water was in the ocean instead of sitting on top of it as ice at the poles.
In other words, thank you for the insight, the argument is much stronger now. That is what this site is all about, digging toward truth.
The icecaps are still melting, that would be the bottom line here.
Daire Did not vote.
Interesting article, I agree with your conclusion. There is a lot of conflicting information and varying agenda’s present at the moment.
I’m curious as to where you got your fact “Together Greenland and Antartica contain about 75% of the world’s water.” According to the https://water.usgs.gov/edu/ only 1.7% of all of earths water are held as ice in the caps. Yes, even if all this melted it would be catastrophic. However for all of it or even a significant portion of it to melt is another days discussion…
Thomas DeMicheleThe Author Did not vote.
I’ll have to verify the claim again. Good catch, I’ll add the explainer or revise after I research it.